Tag Archives: Alaska

Alaska Innocence Filing Exposes Flawed Eyewitness Testimony

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Marvin Roberts from 300 feet away, a photograph taken 10/12/13 at McKenzie Point Correc

Marvin Roberts from 300 feet away, a photograph taken 10/12/13 at McKenzie Point Correc

The Fairbanks Four were convicted primarily on the eyewitness testimony of Arlo Olson, who testified that he was able to identify the four men, two of whom he had never seen before, from 550 feet away in the dark.

We recently posted the details of Olson’s testimony, audio recordings of his multiple recantations, discussed his motivations, inconsistencies, recantations of recantations, and his personal criminal history. (READ THAT HERE) We have also discussed how Olson’s testimony about the assault of Frank Dayton was not even consistent with Frank Dayton’s recollection. (HERE)

 

 

This is a photograph taken 16 years to the date eaglesand time of the night Frank Dayton was assaulted. Arlo testified that he identified the Fairbanks Four from this vantage point and in this lighting. According to his testimony he identified they would have been essentially next to the furthest visible building on the left, there is a parked car with headlights on at the exact location to mark the spot. We have discussed this multiple times. Those posts and conversations have their place. It is important to understand HOW and WHY a wrongful conviction occurs. But the reality is that discussions of how or why Arlo Olson lied in his testimony don’t really matter anymore. The filing by the Alaska Innocence Project filed for post conviction relief of the basis of innocence for the Fairbanks Four contains expert scientific review of the testimony that makes a very simple and indisputable claim: it is impossible for Olson, or any human being, to identify anyone from 550 feet away.

Well known celebrity as they would be seen from 550ft

Well known celebrity as they would be seen from 550ft

The evaluation of Olson’s testimony was completed by an extraordinarily well qualified  scientist who uses this photograph of a well-known celebrity to illustrate what the eye can see from 550 feet away in optimal conditions and daylight.  Can you recognize the face? Obviously, no, you can’t. No one can. Plainly stated, no human being can identify a face from that distance.

 

 

 

 

 

Julia RobertsHere is the photograph, with a representation below of the loss of perception and size at varying lengths. This issue is settled. The sky is blue, grass is green, and Arlo Olson lied in court, simple as that. There was a time when many believed to world was flat. Science sometimes answers these questions, and logic has once again prevailed.

The testimony was absurd to begin with. The idea that four men were sent to prison based on it is astounding and unforgivable. Yet, the state of Alaska considered this their most important evidence, the very prosecutor who convicted them said that without the testimony they had “no case,” and to this day imprisons the Fairbanks Four on the strength of that claim. The entire expert statement is contained in the filing we link to below for readers to review on their own.

The Fairbanks Four were not sent to jail on accident. They were not unlucky bystanders in an unfortunate misunderstanding. We believe they were the victims of irresponsible work at best, and more likely corruption. The lies of Arlo Olson were purchased by police and prosecutors with an offer of leniency in his own crimes, and if his account is to be believed, he was threatened with prosecution for perjury if he recanted. The bottom line is that there is abundant evidence that Olson’s testimony was flawed and untruthful, and now there is clear, concise, correct scientific proof.

The State of Alaska’s current response to this case is that they are sure they are right, but will now do an independent investigation of themselves, by themselves, and until that time will remain silent. We have said before, and will say again, that the enemy of the truth is not a lie, it is silence. In their silence they remain the enemy of the truth.

Application for Post Conviction Relief:

http://www.webcenter11.com/sites/default/files/application_for_postconviction_relief.pdf

Never Forget to Remember John Hartman

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We grieve John Hartman.

The hardest, most painful part of writing the story of the Fairbanks Four is to trespass on the memories and recall the horrific final moments of a young boy we never knew.

In the graphic court photos, the mountains of expert affidavits analyzing his cause of death, explorations of causative instruments, manners of death, autopsies, soft tissue, timelines, witnesses, pants, the photographs of him ailing in a hospital bed aired as he lay dying in an effort to identify him, the letters to the editor, the newspaper articles, the school picture, the photo of him kneeling in his football uniform run over and over in the articles not about his life, but his terrible death…..in all of these documents someone’s child became a court exhibit. But never, ever forget, those who fight for the Fairbanks Four fight for this boy as well.

ImageIn those terrible photographs, below the wounds, was the face of someone who was loved. A son, a brother, a friend, a person. He was a baby once, freshly born, and surely his mother marveled over his little wrinkled fingers as all mothers do, so impossibly small. So perfect. His birth was the most common and divine miracle that any life is. He came into being. He smiled for the first time. He laughed. He learned to walk, tumbled on unsteady feet. Someone ran their hand over his forehead to check for a fever, someone kissed him goodnight. Maybe he wrestled with his brothers, made his friends laugh. He blew out candles on birthday cakes, he woke up in delight on Christmas mornings. He smiled toothless into those early elementary school photos. John Hartman grew out of chubby cheeks and freckles sprinkled across his nose, the winds of hundreds of summer days swept over him, the sun warmed his skin. He had a first kiss, a crush, secret dreams, unique hopes. Surely, his life contained all of these typical moments, and the thousands of moments unique to him known only to those who truly knew him. He became a boy, then a young man, grew into that middle season where childhood is waning, and the future is wide open.

And then, he was so unfairly interrupted. His life came to an end. They say that all of those moments flash before the dying, that the last thing we do before we leave our bodies is remember the life we lived in them. Hopefully, that is true, and the life that flashed before him was a happy one.

I wish we could articulate how it is impossible to work to prove the innocence of the Fairbanks Four and to tell their story without grieving the child whose death they were accused of causing – how often the reality and weight of his suffering and the magnitude of his pain and the grief of his loss weighs on us.

George Frese said he thinks of him every night, that he prays to him simply, expressing sorrow that his life ended so terribly, and implores him for help from the other side. These four men all understand that their lives are inextricably connected to the life and death of a boy they never knew, and what has arisen from that is a kind of powerful and sad kinship.

To fight for justice is to fight for justice. That four young men who committed no crime are imprisoned is a terrible injustice. That whoever killed John Hartman has never been held accountable is a terrible injustice. Every time his death is examined, discussed, his name is said out loud, the fact that he was murdered is discussed without equal understanding that he also lived – all of that is an injustice. The wrongful convictions that followed the murder of an innocent child have, perhaps, prevented him from resting peacefully, which he deserves. But the greatest injustice of all is that John Hartman died while he was just a little boy, and that the endless possible futures in his path were taken from him. In his obituary his family shared that John wanted to attend college in Michigan, where he hoped to play football and become a vet. In a world with true, pure justice, this young man would be in his thirties now, perhaps with a child of his own, marveling at the miracle that life is.

To anyone who loved and knew this boy, we are so sorry. We are so deeply sorry for your loss, and so sorry if the fight to prove the innocence of the Fairbanks Four hurts you. We are sorry for the greatest injustice of all in this story; the loss of his life and the hurt it brought upon you all.

Please remember that we never forget John Hartman. We are fighting for him, too, and doing everything we can to tell this story with tenderness and respect to the truly innocent boy who died in that long ago October.

 

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Dear Silent Holders of the Truth – A letter from Eugene

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One incredibly frustrating, heartbreaking, difficult reality about the murder of 1997 is that THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO KNOW WHO DID IT. One investigator after another has identified a small handful of people that have information about this case, and knows that there are others. There is a $35,000 reward for information. ANYONE with information can call Bill Oberly with the Innocence Project at 907-279-0454 and come forward anonymously or on the record, and PLEASE, PLEASE, if you or someone you know has information about the killing of John Hartman, DO come forward.

What the investigators continually hear from people with information is that they are afraid of retaliation or being labeled as snitches, most especially afraid of retaliation or hardship if they themselves end up in prison. Although their choice to remain silent is their choice to make, it is heartbreaking. In order for the Fairbanks Four to get a new trial, these people would HAVE to come forward.

Below, Eugene speaks to THEM. To people that have information in this case but choose to stay silent.  Spread this letter everywhere you can, most especially to anyone you think it might apply to. Hopefully their heart is softened by Eugene’s plea and they are encouraged by his words of support.

I Feel Blessed – An Interview with Marvin Roberts

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Marvin Roberts gave an interview with Dan Bross of KUAC when the reward amount in this case was raised to $35,000. The radio show was brief, but here is the full audio, where Marvin talks about how he feels about his imprisonment and the movement to free him.

Marvin was wrongfully convicted in 1997, just over a year after he graduated as valedictorian of his class. If Marvin can feel blessed in prison, a short season away from the day that will mark his 15th year there, those of us who have the ability to read this, to sleep in a bed, to turn a door knob and walk out a door, to breathe the air and walk with the Earth beneath our feet, are surely blessed beyond belief.

I Shall Be Released – Video Post

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This short video covers the most basic information about this case. This is a great thing to pass along, link to, post on Facebook, tweet, text, and spread far and wide. Many people who do not have the time to read the case files have three minutes to watch a video.

The soundtrack is I Shall Be Released as sung by Walter Trout and the Free Radicals

They say everything can be replaced

But every distance is not near

So I remember every face

Of every man who put me here

They say ev’ry man needs protection
They say ev’ry man must fall
Yet I swear I see my reflection
Some place so high above this wall
I see my light come shining
From the west unto the east
Any day now, any day now
I shall be released

Standing next to me in this lonely crowd
Is a man who swears he’s not to blame
All day long I hear him shout so loud
Crying out that he was framed
I see my light come shining
From the west unto the east
Any day now, any day now
I shall be released

 

Alibis and Witnesses V – Paging Conan

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As near as anyone can tell the whole town of Fairbanks spent part of this night paging Conan Goebel. We do not know how to reach him (maybe someone still has his pager number?) to see if he wanted to make a statement today, but he figures enough into all of the timelines that he is well worth a mention. Beyond that, Conan has two other important roles in this case.
Conan’s pager had the potential to be a really solid alibi, and potentially an alibi for all four. It could have been the only common alibi, since although they spent the critical hours of this night apart, someone was always paging Conan. As far as we have seen, there was never any attempt to track down this data. But his pager would have been an ideal time-stamp on many people’s whereabouts. We have no idea why this information is not available, could be that it was not possible, could be that, like many other pieces of information that contradicted the investigators’ theory, it is either “missing” or was never pursued. Conan did offer the pager information to detectives, and surely the records if they existed could have easily been obtained. His pager is such an important witness an entire future post will be the pager’s timeline.
Aside from his pager Conan, like many others, was interrogated with high-pressure techniques when he was interviewed. As with other interrogations, which you can and should read HERE, Conan was given the good cop/bad cop treatment, and they tried to pressure him into admitting he was an eye-witness to the crime. Again, they gave him two choices:  Admit to being an eye witness; or, risk becoming a suspect. They cited false information, telling him that multiple people had implicated him, that his friends said he was there, that he had details of the crime not yet known (of course, none of this was true) and suggested to him that he had been blacked out (if you can undermine a person’s own memory of their movements it is much easier to persuade them that they were involved).
This technique failed quite terribly on Conan. And it is refreshing, because it worked painfully well on too many people.
Conan’s interview is one of our favorites, because when the investigator said things like, “Your friends think you were there.” He said things like, “I don’t think so.” He was just the rare example of a person who saw right through the manipulation. He asks them repeatedly about the obvious holes in their theory:
  •   How could a person across town have done this?
  •   Why would they ever think people like Marvin or Eugene had done this?
  •   George or Kevin?
  •  Why wasn’t George’s foot hurt when Conan saw him at around 3 am?
  •  Why were all of them behaving normally, in a good mood?
  •  Why weren’t they covered in blood? Why hadn’t they told him or anyone else about a fight?
Conan was a common link between the four because he was friends with each. People always ask why everyone was paging Conan. It seems he was a popular guy, and on a hopping night, everyone just wanted him to come out. Another distinct possibility –  maybe everyone was paging Conan just because he’s kind of a badass.
We will post his interview in its entirety at the bottom, but have to share a few stand-out  quotes here:
Conan:  Well, I can’t say it’s them.
Officer:  His pants pulled down.  Raped, and left in the gutter, okay.  Now, if that was your friend, okay –
Conan:  I still wouldn’t blame these kids for something that I don’t know.  See, there’s – I can’t tell…
Officer:  That’s why you’re not the police and you’re not investigating this –
Conan:  Thank God, ’cause I wouldn’t want to be working your job.  
    
We are glad that the officer explained to Conan that his unwillingness to finger someone for murder without evidence or motivation is why he would not make a good investigator.
After Conan admonishes them for making such a serious accusation with such little evidence, he gives Detective Ring and the other officer the boot. He tells them that they should not be showing up at his house, being disrespectful, and harassing him. It clearly makes them mad, and the officer gives Conan a little speech about owning the streets:
Officer:  Well, let me tell you something here.  These are our streets, okay.
Conan:  Right, man.  They’re my streets too.
Touché. And you know what? They ARE our streets! Where can we get a Team Conan t-shirt?!
Well, beyond his encouraging attitude and very early “Free the Fairbanks Four” work, Conan was an important witness. Conan saw all of the accused this night. His girlfriend was at the house party with Eugene and Kevin, which is why he was being paged from their location. His sister was there as well.  Kevin was dropped off at Conan’s house after the house party, and walked to his mom’s from there. After he got in a fight with his mom, Kevin rode back to Conan’s by a three wheeler and spent the night there.

For the purposes of this transcription “G” will be Conan Goebel, and “O” will be officer. (transcript does not confirm that one of the officers is Aaron Ring. We are operating on a hunch when we assume that it was him)

Goebel:  All right.  So, I gotta go over this all over with you?

Officer:  Yes, just where you were Friday.
G:  11:30, around 11:30, I got dropped off at, um – Over by the 21st Avenue at my cousin’s house (inaudible).  And, uh…

O:  Well, who dropped YOU off?  I think that’s one of the questions.
G:  Chrsty Moses and – I answered this.

O:  I understand.  That’s why I’m taking notes this time.
G:  And Kevin Pease and um…

O:  Okay.

G:  Dropped me off
O:  Was Eugene I the car at that time?

G:  No.

O:  Okay, 11:30?
G:  Yeah, it was probably around 11 – 11:30.

O:  11 – 11:30, okay.  What’s your cousin’s name again?
G:  Samantha.

O:  Samantha, okay.  And how long did you stay there?

G:  Till about 2:30, 2, I think.

O:  Two?  2:30, okay.
G:  Could have been (inaudible).  ‘Cause I know I went to town for a while.  It might have been earlier when they dropped me off the first time, or when they dropped me off the second time (inaudible).
O:  What do you mean, first and second time?
G:  Well, they dropped me off the first time and I stayed there for a while, and then they took off.  Then it’s just those people right there, and then they came back, and, uh, I got – I went – I come to the van with them and we went and picked up Eugene and Nathan.  They were at Eugene’s house.  And then we drove back over there and then they dropped me off right there, but I told them when they were looking for a place to go I (inaudible) take the car back.  So, I was like, well, you can drop me off at Sam’s house.
O:  Well, see, okay.  That’s – That is why he’s confused and why I’m a little confused.  you got dropped off there the first time by who?

G:  By just them people I said.

O:  Okay, what time was that?
G:  About 10:30.

O:  It was those people that dropped you off
G:  It was those – what time was that?  The van (inaudible)

O:  Tanya’s van?  Okay.
Another Officer:  And who was in this van with you?

G:  Tanya, Christy Moses, Allen Sisto.
O:  Okay, and they dropped you off at Sam’s and they went – you don’t – do you know where they went?

G:  They went up to Kevin’s – Kevin Bradley’s.

O:  Kevin Bradley.
G:  There, yes.  And then, they paged me, probably between 12:00 and 2:00 (inaudible) and they were (inaudible) it up there for a while, and I talked to them on the phone a few times and told them (inaudible) but I never (inaudible) so I called the next time around – I don’t know – 2, around 2:30
O:  Well, what’s this 11:30 time that you gave me when you were dropped off there?
G:  That’s when I got dropped off the second time.
O:  Okay, tell me about that – when you got dropped off the second time at 11:30.
G:  Well, after we picked up Nathan and Eugene, we went over – back over there, and I was like, they were going to find a place. Get me on the pager, and I’ll call (inaudible).
O:  YOU didn’t go up to Kevin’s?

G:  huh-uh

O:  Okay.
G:  And I, um, (inaudible) down there and they paged me and I talked to them on the phone.  (inaudible) I think it was like probably around, uh, 2:30 is when I called again.  I called at, um, it was probably like, (inaudible) left.  And I was like, all right.  And I asked, where did they go.  and they went down to Eagles Hall to meet you.  And I was (inaudible) so I hung up the…
O:  You didn’t know they were going to go down to Eagles to meet you?

G:  Nah-huh.

O:  Okay.
G:  Um, I think Eugene paged me before they leave.  I don’t know who – he told Dana – he said we’re going to go meet Conan down at Eagles Hall, but I don’t – I didn’t call him back.  (Inaudible)
O:  Oh, I see

G:  And, uh, he paged me 479-____.

O:  (Inaudible)
G:  And then, uh, walked down to Eagles Hall and, uh, it was about 3:00.  (Inaudible) and um,
O:  Who was there?
G:  I ran into, uh, Eugene, Dana, um, George, Marvin, Harley, uh, all those – all those guys.  And I was talking to them.  And nothing seemed – uh, I mean I was talking to him right there and, uh, he even talked to me and George (inaudible) hadn’t seen him in a while, and there was NOTHING WRONG WITH HIM AT THE TIME (inaudible) and he was in a pretty good mood.  And then, uh, so we was talking for a while, and um, and then, um, then everybody’s taking off – we were pretty faded at that time (inaudible).  And I was like, well, um, (inaudible) I called for a taxi for Dana.  And I, (inaudible) the taxi, (inaudible), Eagles, but they took too long because it was 3:30 when we finally got out of there, and, uh, Eagles – a red taxi rolled up and I went out there and I put here in that one and I sent her
home.  And after that, me, Eugene and Edgar, we proceeded on foot downtown.  And we walked downtown.  And (inaudible) across the street from – over at Elbow Room, and kind of walked in there, and then we turned around and…

O:  Who was in that bar?

G:  Um…
O:  Nobody YOU knew?  Okay.
G:  And, um, I walked (inaudible), and, then, uh, (inaudible) he didn’t last too long.  He was pretty (inaudible).  So then I – we walked over to Alaska Motor Inn.  And chilled there for a while.  And, uh, then, somebody said, (inaudible)

O:  Did YOU see that?
G:  I didn’t see (inaudible).  Eugene (inaudible).  But then I found out Eugene (inaudible) I talked to Harley
O:  When did you hear about that?  Because I don’t think you told me about that before.
G:  Well, see, I walked back over to – walked back over to Shannon’s – Shannon Charlie’s – (Inaudible) and, uh, I just took off over there after (inaudible) and I walked – walked over – back over to 21st.  That was at my cousin’s for a while.

O:  What time did YOU get back over to 21st?
G:  Probably around, uh, (inaudible).  Then, uh, I was – I don’t know – it could have been the next morning or that night that I talked to Harley about mace down there and it was like Eugene – Eugene and George got in a fight at Alaska Motor Inn.  That’s what I thought happened.  George got in a fight at Alaska Motor Inn.  And I was like, where’s he at?  And they’re like, he got arrested.  And then, after that, the next morning I heard about some kid getting beat up pretty bad and in a coma.
O:  Where’d you hear about that, Conan?
G:  Um, I think that was Louis.  ‘Cause the cops (inaudible).  And I was like – I was like, really.  and they’re like (inaudible).  We got in a fight with some other guy.  And that’s what I thought happened.
O:  That’s pretty weird because…
G:  I don’t know how – I mean Eugene took off and he didn’t say nothing – there was nothing wrong with him – no blood.
O:  Well, let me ask you about this.  You know the Tritts – Cordell and Courtney and their sister – what’s their sister’s name?  I’ve got their names written down.  Any way, Cordell and Courtney and their sister.  And you know…     ?:  (Inaudible)
O:  Antonio Sisto.  And you remember riding in the car with these guys?

G:  On Friday?
O:  Um, Saturday.

G:  Mm

O:  YOU remember talking to Antonio and Courtney?

G:  (Inaudible)
O:  And telling them about this guy that these guys beat down?
G:  No, I didn’t tell them about (inaudible) I asked and they said (inaudible) fight or some…
O:  Well, let me tell you.  I talked to all these people and they had information about you talking about this guy that got beat down.  And you know what they thought, by the way you were talking about it and all the details you had and everything – and this is Saturday where all the details came out. They thought you were there.

G:  That I was there?

O:  When this happened.
G:  I read it in the paper.  It was all in the paper.  I told them – I told that Eugene, Marvin, Kevin, and George are accused of murder.

O:  That wasn’t in the paper Saturday.
G:  Well, it was in the paper or on the new then, because even, uh, Sammie Smith told me heard about it on the news – somebody got coma – in a coma.

O:  What time was that you were (inaudible)?
G:  Then it was probably close to – it was like 12:00 at night.  And, I says to them (inaudible) ’cause I was calling and talking to (inaudible) and telling me they had all those guys in jail, and I was like – I don’t know – I don’t know (inaudible) he died or heard – at first I heard he was in a coma and then I heard he died.  And I was telling (inaudible) that.  And after that I got a ride with Courtney.  And I was – I got in there and I was talking to Antonio, and he was asking me about (inaudible), and I was like, I don’t
know, man.  I heard that they’re being accused for murder or something like that.
O:  Well, I think Antonio knew all about it because I think we’d talked to him by then.  And, uh, and – me and the Tritts are under the impression that you were there and saw this.
G:  Well, I wasn’t even anywhere around them.
O:  Or, they were under the impression maybe even a little more so that you were there and participated in this.

G:  You say that’s what they say?
O:  That’s the impression they got from you.

G:  I don’t think so.  I didn’t tell them anything like that.
O:  But if you were there and saw what happened, that’s another thing.

G:  I didn’t…
O:  Now, you mentioned Jeremy.  And I’ll talk about Jeremy for a minute.  Because Jeremy asked youvabout it, okay?  And you told him, geeze, I don’t know what was up – I was in a blackout.
G:  I was in a blackout?  I wasn’t blacked out.
O:  I know, but that’s what you told Jeremy.  ‘Cause he asked you why were in the fight with these guys and this thing, and you told him you were in a blackout.  Well, you know I’m not lying to you ’cause you told Jeremy that.  You know I’m not lying to you.
G:  I don’t know nothing about that.

O:  And Jeremy told us.

G:  I seen – I recall…
O:  ‘Cause he’s concerned about you and wanting to know if maybe you were just a witness to this happening or you were a participant.
G:  I wasn’t a participant or a witness.  I didn’t – I didn’t even get down there until…
O:  Why’d YOU tell Jeremy you were in a blackout then?

G:  I never told him I was in a blackout.
O:  Well, I don’t think he made it up.  He doesn’t have anything against you.
G:  Well, I know he don’t have anything against me.  There’s no reason, ’cause I never told him I was in a blackout.
O:  You see how this all looks?  The Tritts thinking – or thinking you’re talking like you were there and you participated.  Jeremy’s asking you a couple of times about the fight you were in and you…
G:  I wasn’t even in a fight.  I didn’t tell him.  I said, I don’t know what happened.  They’re getting accused for beating somebody up.
O:  You told him you didn’t know because you were in a blackout, okay?
G:  I didn’t know because…

O:  See, Conan, you’re not – we’re not arresting you here.
G:  But I ain’t got nothing – I wasn’t even around then.  I didn’t even hear what happened until like the next day about this kid being comatose…
O:  We’re  – we’re kind of concerned as to whether you want to be a witness or not, or whether you want to…

G:  Hey, if I seen it, man, I would tell you guys what happened.
O:  Well, let’s talk about that for a minute.
G:  But the thing is, I wasn’t even in the neighborhood that it happened in.  And that’s what I…
O:  Were you in Marvin’s car at all?
G:  Naw-huh.  I never even noticed Marvin’s car that night.  I never even rode in the car at all from Eagles
Hall.

O:  Well, is there any reason why YOUR fingerprints would be in Marvin’s car?
G:  Marvin’s car?

O:  HIS blue car?
G:  There’s no reason my fingerprints would be in there.  (Inaudible) I mean, I’ve rode in there before, but I didn’t ride in there Friday night.  I don’t even think they could be in there ’cause I haven’t rode in there for a while.
O:  Okay, well, no reason – in the back seat area – you weren’t in the backseat area of that car?
G:  (Inaudible)

O:  Did YOU go to the Eagles Hall at all?

G:  Yes.

O:  How?

G:  Walked.
O:  What time did YOU leave?

G:  Around 3:30.

O:  3:30?  What time did you go to (inaudible)?
G:  Around 3:00.  I ran into Dana (inaudible).

O:  Where were you?  Dana had been looking for you.
G:  I was at my cousin’s house (inaudible).
O:  You were there that whole time?  You didn’t leave there then?

G:  No

O:  All right.
G:  (Inaudible) Went in.  I talked to him on the phone a bunch of times.
O:  Why didn’t you go to the Eagles Hall with (inaudible)
G:  Because I didn’t know there was nothing going on down there.

O:  (Inaudible)
G:  (Inaudible) because I talked to them on the phone, and it was like come on, it’s like, we’re going to Eagles Hall, and then I found out (inaudible)
O:  Were they – were they at Eagles Hall when you talked to Joey?
G:  No, Joey was up at Kevin’s and he said they just left.
O:  Oh, okay.  Well, let me – let me clue YOU in there.  Joey drove them to Eagles Hall.
G:  Oh, really?
O:  Oh really.  Oh really.  So, see, we’re having a problem here.  ‘Cause Joey drove them. He borrowed Kevin’s car.  Kevin didn’t want to go and Joey drove ’em.
G:  Well, (inaudible) ’cause he went to Eagles Hall (inaudible) that’s why he called.  ‘Cause I was like how long ago.  He was like, not too long ago.  They left when (inaudible)
O:  And what time was that?

G:  Uh, (inaudible) about (inaudible).
O:  Uh-huh, but you’re telling me Joey was telling you this.  And I’m telling you Joey drove.
G:  I don’t know who drove.  I just talked to Joey – I don’t remember what time it was.  It was around 2:00, 2:30, somewhere around…

O:  Well, maybe Joey had driven and come back?
G:  (Inaudible) that’s what I (inaudible)
O:  So maybe it was around 1:30 or earlier than that that HE drove them in, huh?

G:  Huh
O:  Maybe it was around 1:30 or earlier than that that he drove them in?
G:  Could be, I don’t know.  I didn’t talk to him ’till late.

O:  Well, you told me that…
G:  I don’t know.  I don’t recall.  I could check my pager was.

O:  You got it?

G:  No
O:  You haven’t?

G:  No, that was Friday.  All those pages are erased.  I don’t know (inaudible)
O:  Well, see what I’m saying?  I’m a little bit confused about what you’re telling me.  Either Joey had already come and come back, which means it was quite – quite a while ago that you’d taken to the Eagles, because they got – he was –

G:  I don’t remember the time, though, man, I mean…
O:  Well, you might be right – you might be right.  ‘Cause I think your sister saw him (inaudible) time, so you might be right. You might have talked to Joey and he’d already gone and come back.
G:  I don’t, I don’t, don’t know.  I talked to Joey Shank.  I don’t know what time it was.  It could a been around 2:30.  But, then I remember I walked down there and…
O:  Between 1:15 and 2:15, you were where?

G:  I was over at Sam’s (inaudible).
O:  And you were there from 11:30 until –
G:  Probably about 11:30, 12:00.  I remember Darrel Calling from the car and (inaudible).  But I was sitting there ’till like probably 2:30 or later.  I don’t know.

O:  (Inaudible) around
G:  Because I said I was at the Eagles Hall – I don’t even know what time I was there.  I said I was there when everybody was leaving.  I was like one of the last people at Eagles Hall.
O:  Well, there’s no one (inaudible).  When did YOU leave there?

G:  Probably like 2:30.
O:  What did you do there?

G:  I just sat there talking to my  cous (inaudible).
O:  Okay, well I’ll give them a call and we’ll figure it out.  In fact, I can give them a call here in just a minute.
G:  And then I sat there for a while, and then I talked to Joey on the phone.  I don’t remember what time it was.  He says, I (inaudible) – when I talked to him last time, I got to – I got to Eagles Hall and everybody was leaving.  But I don’t know what time it was.  (Inaudible) it was around 3:30 when everybody was taking off (inaudible).
O:  Well, that’s what your sister and them’s saying.  But I don’t know if their times are right.
Other O:  They locked the doors between 3:00 and 3:30.

O:  Yeah, THEY had the doors closed.
G:  Because we were the last people there.

O:  Because the thing was over at 3:00.
G:  Yeah, it was probably around then.

O:  You left, um…
G:  But it took a while for everybody to get out, because everybody’s drunk.
O:  Yeah, everybody was out by 3:20.

G:  There were a lot of people.
O:  So, you  went from 21st Avenue over to the Eagles Hall?

G:  Yeah.
O:  And you got there, people were leaving?

G:  Uh-huh.  People were leaving.
O:  You see, the problem I’m having here is it’s sounding to me like people are trying to back step and figure out things to match up with other people’s stories and it’s starting to sound like a big mess.
G:  I don’t – I don’t know.  I…
O:  And the way you talked to in front of the Tritts and Antonio, they were thinking you were there when this happened.

G:  I wasn’t even there.  How can they say that?  I told them that…
O:  Well, good point.  Because of the detail you had.  And I would like to know if one of these guys talked to you and told you what happened, or if you were there?
G:  No.  Somebody’s (inaudible)

O:  Which one of these guys talked to you?

G:  Harley told me…
O:  No.  Which one of these guys that were in the fight told you about it?

G:  Nobody told me anything.
O:  (Inaudible) You’re not in trouble here.  We’re  not here trying to hassle…
G:  Look!  I’m basing it all on the times you said.  Eagles Hall – we left – a lot of people left Eagles Hall.
O:  Look, here’s the problem.  You call and you talk to Joey.  Well, Joey thought you dropped these people off, right?  And did some things in town and come back up to the hill.  Right.  (Inaudible) Well, that doesn’t match up with your sister’s (inaudible), who’s called by Kevin and told to adjust her time a little bit.

O:  Well,
G:  I don’t think that (inaudible) happened was Eugene and George got in a fight.  It’s nothing that Eugene and George got in a fight was a whole different fight.
O:  NO!  He did!  Now, I can play a part of the tape for your sister with Eugene saying how many times he kicked the guy.  I just asked him how many times you kick him…
G:  (Inaudible).  How could Kevin do it, when it happened over there?  Kevin was at my house and he had to go to his house.

O:  No, he wasn’t at his house.
G:  He was at my house and then he went to his house and got in a fight with his mom.
O:  He got in a fight with his mom later.

G:  All right.
O:  Okay, and the way it happened, is ’cause all these guys have lied about (inaudible) and what time it was and all that, okay.
G:  I don’t even know where they were.  Because I didn’t see these people until 3:00 – when I first got down to Eagles Hall and I talked with them.  And if they would have got in a fight, they would have told me (inaudible) because –
O:  Right.  Because that’s what we figured.  We figured they told you about it –
G:  (Inaudible)

O:  And that’s why we knew so much information to talk with Antonio…
G:  No, somebody’s telling you…

O:  (Inaudible)
G:  Um, like, I think it’s Harley, or one of them, told me that he got (inaudible) so bad that they had to cut open (inaudible).  So, well…

O:  How would he know that?
G:  I don’t know, man.  Lewis or somebody told me – I don’t know.  But I was like, well, I was like, how could these guys – these guys wouldn’t (inaudible)…
O:  Well, they certainly did.  They certainly did.
G:  Well, I think Eugene got in a fight at Alaska Motor Inn.  That’s what happened.
O:  And what, a space man killed this boy?

G:  Huh?
O:  A guy from outer space killed this boy downtown?
G:  I don’t know, man, there’s a lot of people downtown that night.  You gotta’ understand there were other people downtown on Friday night.
O:  But you see, none of them are admitting to doing it.  And Eugene and George are, okay.  That’s the problem we have, okay.

G:  Well, how could – how could Kevin do it when he was sitting here and –
O:  He wasn’t here.

G:  He was here.  He got dropped off at my house.

O:  Well…
G:  He got dropped off at my house.
O:  And then he left.  He didn’t even come in inside.  Then he came back on his three-wheeler to your house.

G:  He left his house.  How could he –

O:  ‘Cause he actually went downtown.  He didn’t –
G:  His house is that way, unless he got beat up that way.  Then (inaudible) he would walk that way.
O:  Well, I’M not going to argue with you.  ‘Cause I know where Kevin was and I know what time he had a fight with his mom.
G:  Well, yeah, it’s like.  Not too (inaudible).  ‘Cause after he got in a fight with his mom he came back over here on the three-wheeler and then passed out on the floor.
O:  Except for (inaudible) – he stopped by the Alaska Motor Inn (inaudible).
G:  He wasn’t even over there.  I went over there.  I never seen him over there the whole time.  I stopped –
O:  So, you really don’t know what time he was doing anything, do you?

G:  I stopped –
O:  Except what time he got here last.

G:  I don’t know.  It was probably about – I don’t know
O:  Right.

G:  I just heard –
O:  Absolutely.  So, you don’t know where any of these guys were when this boy was killed.
G:  (Inaudible) I seen Eugene at 3:00 down at –
O:  That’s not when the boy was killed.  You don’t know when these guys were killed – or where they were when this boy was killed?

G:  Uh-huh.  Well, I don’t know where –
O:  So don’t try to figure it out, okay.  We just need to know –
G:  I – I don’t see how they could do this, man.

O:  WE just need to know what you know.
G:  ‘Cause if they did, they would have told me about it.  They would have told me they got into a fight. That’s the thing.  And, George – I seen George and his foot – was nothing wrong with his foot.There’s nothing wrong –
O:  If it was your brother or sister laying face down and had this done to ’em, you wouldn’t be talking like that, okay.

G:  Yeah, but it wasn’t.  That’s the thing.

O:  That’s right.  It wasn’t.
G:  But it ain’t.

O:  This was a 15 year old boy…

G:  I don’t pretend things that never happened –
O:  This was a 15 year old boy.  This is a 15 year old boy –

G:  I know it’s a 15 year old boy.
O:  That got his head beat in.

G:  Well, I can’t say it’s them.
O:  His pants pulled down.  Raped, and left in the gutter, okay.  Now, if that was your friend, okay –
G:  (Inaudible) problem, but it wouldn’t…

O:  It would be –
G:  I still wouldn’t blame these kids for something that I don’t know.  See, there’s – I can’t tell…
O:  That’s why you’re not the police and you’re not investigating this –
G:  Thank God, ’cause I wouldn’t want to be working your job.

O:  Okay, that’s why…
G:  (Inaudible) but I –

Other O:  I don’t understand your point.  That’s exactly why what?
G:  I don’t know.  You said that’s the law.  Whatever, man.  I don’t need this.  You all coming in here and harassing me in my own home.  I wasn’t even with them; I was –
O:  We’re not harassing you.  What we’re doing is we’re just (inaudible) this right here in your home.
G:  Well this is my home.

O:  So you can disrespect whoever you want?
G:  In my home, yes.  This is my home.  This is my house, man.  I don’t need peole coming up in my house giving me shit (inaudible) –

O:  Well, let me tell you something here.  These are our streets, okay.
G:  Right, man.  They’re my streets too.

O:  Just remember that, okay.
G:  I don’t remember nothing.  (Inaudible) on the streets.  I live on the streets more than you do.
O:  Remember that.
G:  And, the thing is that I think if they did it, they would have told me about it.  That’s all I’m saying
O:  Maybe they’re not good friends with you.  Maybe they –
G:  Nah, man, these are my best friends.  Ask the school – go to (Inaudible) Roberts.  Ask them how close they are to me.  Ask them how close these guys are.  I mean, these are all my boys.  Really close friends.  And that’s the thing –

O:  No, I have no idea.  I don’t think so.  I don’t think so.
(TAPE OFF)

Alibis and Witnesses IV – Alibis Interrogated

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If Marvin had owned a mini-van, there would probably be a “Fairbanks Eleven.” God save anyone who knew him at all if he had owned a bus, there could be an entire tribe in prison.  The next posts will feature some of the alibis and witnesses that appear to have barely escaped arrest for the crime as well. The number of people accused of involvement would have never been able to squeeze in the vehicle, and although some had their fingerprints, etc. submitted, none were arrested or prosecuted. They can be thankful for their own strength of mind and Marvin’s small car!

In all seriousness, there are several witnesses who were brought in because they were named as alibis, or who initiated contact with the police because they had been with one of the four that night. But the interviews rapidly devolved into something that reads a lot more like an interrogation. This post features one of those interviews.

These people were lied to. The police are allowed to lie. It is completely legal and standard practice. These young people were not aware of that, and were understandably baffled. These lies read a lot more like thinly veiled threats. The interrogators attempted to threaten anf bully these people into changing their stories with a common interrogation technique. The technique is, in its simplest form, just “good cop, bad cop.” We all know that term, but most of us do not appreciate how psychologically unraveling it can be. With this technique police officers offer the person being interrogated two options. Both are bad, but one is clearly better. One is a threat -“you will be accused of murder.” The other is an offer of a way out of that -” or maybe you were just a witness.”

For example, when they interrogated George they told him for hours that continuing to stick with his story (the truth) was completely unacceptable. That he had to either admit to playing a smaller role in the beating, or else keep up his story, in which case they would assume he was a ring leader of a brutal sexual assault and beating. It seems incomprehensible to most people that a normal person would pick between two lies, but the reality is that the situation is terrifying. People with a lot of power are telling you that you only have two choices. Experts say that many people give in out of terror and anxiety, and simply pick the lesser of two evils – anything to make the experience end.

Some people are very strong, very sure of themselves. These people often see right through the tactic. Others are weaker and cave immediately. Most of us are likely somewhere right in the middle, and as such are potentially vulnerable to this tactic.

In the case of these witnesses, the police attempted to give them the following choices: agree that you were present, and that you were an eye-witness to the crime (of course, they cite made-up evidence and “proof” that this is the case) or we might have to consider you a participant. Essentially, which were you? An eyewitness or a murderer?

This approach is most successful on people who have any doubt about their whereabouts or gaps in their memory as they can often be led to believe the scenario. (More on that HERE) It is actually surprising that they were not successful in creating an eye-witness with this tactic, but thankfully, they were not. Still, their treatment of these people who were simply doing their best to give their whereabouts that night is astonishing.

Race is a contentious issue in this case, but having read all of the police interviews, we can say this: there were many Native people interviewed, and there were many white people interviewed. Only Native people were subjected to this treatment. Racism is not something that can be often proven – unlike murder, it leaves no physical evidence. But there is more circumstantial evidence of these investigators being racists than there was circumstantial evidence of the Fairbanks Four being guilty of the crime.  Yet, those four sit in jail, the investigators sit behind the desks they were promoted to, and the people they bullied and berated sit with the memory of this kind of treatment. Some people recommend that we shy away from saying that, that playing the “race card” is unfair. But sometimes in life as in poker you have no choice but to play with that hand that you were dealt, and in this case the circumstantial evidence of racism is in our opinion overwhelming. Readers will have to judge for themselves.

Vernon Roberts. When Vernon Roberts was interviewed by the police he told them simply that he was drinking that night at George and Crystal’s apartment, that he did not remember the specific time that things happened, but said that the order of events was that they drank at the apartment, that they then walked from George’s apartment to downtown, that the group spent time at the reception, and that he and George parted company in front of Tommy’s Elbow Room (also known as Cabaret).

He confirms that the group of people outlined in George’s timeline. He says that his girlfriend thought George was about to get in a fight in front of Elbow Room, that he left and returned to George and Crystal’s apartment.We know the times of these events through the testimony of people who were keeping track of the time (see George’s timeline HERE). There is no question that his intoxication makes him a somewhat unreliable alibi. But there is much to be learned about the case from the way he was interrogated.

Vernon’s interview rapidly devolved into an interrogation-like situation, with officers Aaron Ring and Jim Grier tag-team questioning him for a long period of time. When he concedes that he was drunk and that it is possible that he may not remember the entire night they begin to use the same interrogation techniques on him as they had on the four. They tell him some severe lies: they say that George sent them to talk to him, that George and Eugene indicated he knew who was responsible for the sexual assault, that coming forward as an eyewitness would help George, and insinuate that he will be in trouble if he does not come forward with the story they are supplying. NONE of this is true. They accuse him of being in the car, of sitting in the middle seat, of being either a participant or a witness. So, his bad cop, good cop choices are to either admit to being an eye-witness, thereby helping his friend and keeping himself out of trouble, or to take his chances on being investigated as a participant.

Vernon made a choice after being exposed to this technique for a long time in the interview that probably kept him from being either pressured into some kind of false statement or even falsely imprisoned for murder as well – he told them that he wanted to speak to his father, and when they pressured him to stay, he insisted.

A long excerpt of his interview is below. In time we hope to find a way to post these thousands of pages of documents in their entirety to link to (so if anyone knows how to do that, volunteer). Vernon’s experience is simply best told through the police transcript, and we wanted to include it. Prior to the segment here Vernon outlines his night over and over. Shortly after the ending of this segment there is a prolonged period of time where Vernon says he wants to speak to his father, the interrogators encourage him to wait, and eventually his insists and leaves. Vernon’s experience is simply best told through the police transcript, and we wanted to include it.

Interview conducted with Vernon Roberts. Interview conducted by Detective Aaron Ring and Investigator Jim Geier. For the purposes of this transcription “R” will indicate the voice of Vernon Roberts, “G” will indicate the voice of Investigator Geier, and “X” will indicate the voice of Detective Aaron Ring.

X:  I mean I suppose it’s even possible could YOU have been in the car with these GUYS when this happened?
R:  No, I don’t think so.  I think I was downtown most of the night.  Actually all the night.
X:  I mean you…

R:  Until I came over here
X:  Because we have some information that there was maybe even another person with these four guys.
R:  Um

X:  When this happened.

R:  I don’t know
X:  And I was wondering if maybe that could’ve been you.  Maybe you stayed in the car or something when this happened.  is that a possibility?
R:  Nah, cause if this shit would a happened in front of me, man, I would’ve stopped, I’d put a stop to it
X:  Oh, unless you had too much to drink and you were just sitting there and these guys were, I mean they’re out of the car and all of a sudden it happens and it’s too late for you to do anything, ya know, this probably only took a few seconds
R:  I don’t remember, I shouldn’t, I honestly don’t know.
X:  Well, ya know, I , I don’t like keeping things from ya here. And, and I’ve talked to George and George has admitted what his involvement in this is

R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  Okay, and uh, and I asked who else I can talk to about this, and he told me you, okay you’re not under arrest here or anything, cause I, I don’t think that uh anyone’s told us that he was involved in kicking this guy or anything, but the information we have is maybe you have some information about it, or maybe YOU were even in the car, okay.  So that’s what I’m looking at.
R:  Well, like I said, I have no informatio
X:  Did you have a car that, did you have a car that night?

R:  No, I was walking.
X:  Okay, well that leads me back to the night there at the Eagles and I wanta, I wanta be serious with you here, okay.  I don’t want you to cause a problem for yourself by, by trying maybe to keep things from us.

R:  Oh I’m not, I, that, I’m being honest, honest with you guys
X:  Cause the most important, the most important thing that you can do now is be completely truthful in this thing.

R:  That’s what I’m doing
X:  And I think maybe you’re afraid that you don’t wanta get your friends in any deeper trouble, let me tell you this, George can’t be in any deeper trouble, he can’t be in any deeper trouble.  He’s told us that he did this, okay.  He’s told us that he did this, Eugene told us that he did this, okay.  I mean it goes all the way around.

R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  And they’ve already told, so any, any information that you have isn’t gonna hurt George, I mean it’s not.  We just wanta verify some things that he’s told us about his limited involvement and he said, these other guys were more involved than he was and that he just kicked this guys a couple of times, he didn’t have anything to do with sexually assaulting this guy

R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  And I asked him well how can I verify that and how can I prove what your involvement is and he tells me I should come see you, okay.  So what does that leave me to believe is that you were either there or he told you about it, and I’m, I’m kinda curious as to which it was.
R:  I don’t even know.

X:  Cause he, okay
R:  I’m telling you guys the honest truth, I mean you all just

X:  I know
R:  Act like I’m fucking lying to you all, but

X:  Well no, no

R:  Shit
X:  No, I don’t think it’s, I wouldn’t call it that

R:  Yeah, but that’s what your saying
X:  Vernon, well, well here’s the
R:  Be, be truthful, you keep saying, telling me to be truthful, and then I am…
X:  Here’s the point, Vernon

R:  And your all just, saying I’m a liar or something
X:  If we came, if we came over here and you said right away, the first, first thing we sit down with you and say, okay, I know all about this, here’s what George did, ya know, here’s, here’s the whole thing, I would think well geeze, this is kinda strange, this is George’s friend, he shouldn’t tell us this all that that quickly ya know.  So I know people cover for their friends, I, I, ya know, I don’t live in a dream world, I know people try and keep their involvement limited
R:  I ain’t covering for nobody, I’m just telling you guys what I know
X:  Well, here’s another thing that I’m concerned with Vernon, is that if you were in the car, that might be a reason you might not wanta talk about it.  Cause You would think you would be in trouble, okay.
R:  Like I say, I don’t even know if I was in the car
X:  Vernon, here’s the thing, if you didn’t kick this, this boy, if you didn’t have anything to do with that, if you didn’t hit him, then you’re not in trouble, okay

R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  But, but if you’re a witness to it, we need, we need to talk seriously about it, okay.  If you witnessed it happen, then WE need to talk about it.
R:  I don’t know if I did or not, like I told ya, I blacked out, when I drink, when I drink
X:  Do you remember driving around with the four of them?
R:  (Inaudible) No, I don’t even know if I was, I don’t think I was either
X:  Well you, what does Marvin drive, you know what Marvin drives, right?
R:  I don’t know, I just, I don’t know, didn’t even see him that night and if I did, I was blacked out cause I don’t remember seeing him, Eugene, or Kevin.
X:  People black out when they pass out and fall down on the ground.  You were functional. You were walking around, you made it back over here, you made it back over to Chrystal’s
R:  I, I do that lots, when I’m blacked out
X:  And here’s, here’s the thing, YOU left, from Chrystal’s with George, and you ended back up over at Chrystal’s.

R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  Okay, and in between there, something happens, okay.  That’s all we’re trying to get at, okay.
R:  I know, I wouldn’t mind knowing what the hell happened too.

X:  Okay
R:  But it’s like I said, I blacked out from drinking so much
X:  Okay, but these, these boys, who have told us that they done this, when we asked them about
you, they said well, he probably knows, but I, ya know, they don’t, I don’t think any of them said that Vernon kicked anybody, did they?

Geier:  No, no involvement, but he knows about it.
X:  I mean that’s so, I’m here trying to verify yourfriends story, okay.  That’s, that’s all
R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  And if you wanta listen to the tape where George says that, I’ll play it for you, okay.  Cause he showed up at the hospital, thinking he broke his foot on this guy

R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  And, and wanted some help over there, and, and he talked pretty honestly about it, okay.  He talked pretty honestly and I’m not psychic, I’m here to talk to you cause he sent me over here, okay.  And uh, I’m sorry it took me ya know, so long to get over here to see ya, but, and then I hear more and more, and your names involved a little more and then, and uh, based on what Eugene and George have had to say, we’re here trying to find out if, if you wanta help us or not, okay.  If you wanta help us.  And I suppose that people say, well he was in the car too, he’s just as guilty, but that’s not necessarily so.

R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  Okay, that’s not necessarily the truth.  The extent of your involvement is what we’re looking at and whether you actually got out and took anything from this guy, or you hit him, or kicked him or, or, or sexually assaulted him, okay.  And whoever’s responsible for sexually assaulting this kid, that’s one thing that George and Eugene really didn’t wanta talk about.

R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  Okay, I don’t know if they’re involved in that or not, whether they put something, an object up this guy or not.    I don’t know.  I don’t know if it’s Kevin, ya know, I don’t really know for sure.  I, I wouldn’t bet that it would be George.
R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  Or Eugene, I wouldn’t bet that it be either of those guys.  Uh, but they sent me over to talk to you, maybe that’s hard, them putting this off on you to be the one to tell, ya know?  But, and then maybe that’s not fair, but that’s just the way it is, okay.  So I think maybe we need to go down and, and talk about this seriously and figure it out.  And uh, like I said you’re not under arrest.  We’re, we just wanta get this story from you.

R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  And you can come back or, or whatever.

R:  I basically told you what I know
X:  Well you said you blacked out

R:  Yes
X:  You could’ve been in the car, but blacked out.

R:  I blacked out

X:  And, how, how old are you?
R:  Twenty two
X:  Okay, I’ve been drinking since I was nineteen, drinking age at nineteen

R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  Okay, I know when YOU drink a lot, sometimes things are fuzzy, ya know, your memory’s fuzzy, but you don’t forget everything

R:  I do     X:  Okay.
R:  I, that happened to me lots of times before.  I remember some of the people telling me, oh you remember doing this and that, and

X:  Well that’s
R:  Man you were so funny that night, and I’d be like no, and then they’d be all like, I was blacked out
X:  That’s, that’s little things, Vernon, that’s, that’s little funny things that you do, but having some guys hop out of a car and, and stomp a guy, and beat a guy, is probably not something that  happens a lot.  And that’s probably something that would stick out in your mind.
R:  If, if I seen that, I mean I wouldn’t lie about it.  I’d tell you, and if I seen it or not
X:  Well, except for there’s a problem where you’re afraid of maybe being in trouble, or, or George is gonna get in more trouble if he’s the guy that sexually assaulted this boy or something.  I don’t know. There’s a lot of reasons why you wouldn’t wanta tell us that right away, and I understand that.  And I don’t hold that against you.  I don’t hold that against you at all.  But George sent us here to get the story from ya, and that’s why we’re here.  It’s as simple as that, okay.  You, you’re, you’re the guy that can tell us and I know it’s hard, I know it’s a shame that he had to put the rest of that off on you, but he told us, he did it.  He told us what he did

R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  And uh, I just need to verify that with you, verify who else was involved and verify what your involvement is, they, they don’t say you kicked him, they don’t say you hit him.  If that’s true,that’s fine.     

R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)
X:  Okay, but that doesn’t excuse you from being a witness, you still have to be a witness, okay.  And that’s, that’s all there is to it, okay.  Now, let’s just please get past this a little bit, and tell us straight about it, and if you wanta go down to the police station
R:  I am talking straight about it
X:  And make a statement about it, well we can do that, okay.  But I, I wanta, I want the whole story, ya know.  I realize parts of it are gonna be fuzzy, and parts of it you aren’t gonna remember, but the whole thing is not anything that you’d forget, okay.  And if its, if there’s other people involved that we don’t know, and that you know, we need to talk about that too, okay.  Cause I wanta make sure we have all the facts, and I ya know, if they’re friends of yours that are involved, well we still need to talk about that.  Cause just the indication I get from George, I mean he says, ya know, go talk to Vernon, Vernon will be able to tell ya, Vernon will be able to tell you what happened, that leads me to believe that you were there, okay.  And there’s some talk from some other people about a fifth guy
being in the car, okay.  Well, like we say, we’re not psychic, we’re just, we’re just trying to get to the truth.  And from what I hear from these guys, it doesn’t sound like you assaulted anybody.
R:  Uh-huh (affirmative)

X:  It really doesn’t, it really doesn’t
R:  I honestly don’t know.  I mean I’m telling the truth
X:  May, maybe we, maybe we can take a quick drive up to Ninth and Barnette and maybe that will help you remember.

G:  Do you mind?

R:  I don’t mind.
X:  Sure, let’s take a quick drive up there.

R:  I don’t remember anything though, sorry.

Dead Man Walking – A Witness and Song Come Forward

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“In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” George Orwell

In the days and weeks following the murder of John Hartman many, many people who came forward to tell the truth were treated poorly by police, threatened, and terrified by their experiences. In barely veiled threats, some were even made to believe that if they stuck with their story they may become suspects in the murder as well.

“You keep asking me for the truth, I keep telling you the truth, I don’t understand…” cried one fifteen year old being interviewed. Incarnations of her fear, tears, confusion, and BRAVERY when being pressured to give up the truth and accept someone else’s lies are echoed in many, many interviews with the case.

Why? Because by telling the truth in a climate of deceit, these ordinary people were threatening to tear down all that the investigators thought they had built in the early days following John Hartman’s murder.

The police had a lot of things going for them in the moments, hours, and days immediately following John Hartman’s death. They had four men in custody, two of whom relented to some degree to the aggressive and relentless interrogation and had arguably implicated themselves in a murder. They had collected shoes and boots, pants and shirts, jackets and caps, and the alleged getaway car. All evidence was sent to a crime lab, and they likely expected the tests performed there to confirm their theory. Early, brief conversations with the a handful of the people the men claimed to have spent the evening with made it seem at least possible that all four of the men had been at the Eagles’s Hall at 2 am or shortly after. The police theorized that they had met up at that point, taken a short drive down the street, beaten and sexually assaulted John Hartman for being white, then parted ways. Perhaps they expected that as time went on more witnesses would come forward to confirm their theory. They announced that the crime was solved, and maybe they believed it was. A story of the beating appeared on the front page of the local paper, followed the next day by mug shots of the four arrested. And then, the station was flooded with calls. Witnesses did come forward, including one call that would throw the first of many, many wrenches into the case the investigators were building.

The call came from Melanie Durham, a resident at the women’s shelter adjacent to the crime scene. A house where women and children go to escape fists and feet and men that would hurt them. A place women go so that they do not have to hear children plead weakly for help. On the deck outside this place, Melanie heard a murder.

Melanie said that she knew what time John Hartman had been killed. She had been watching the Late Night with Conan O’Brien show that night, and David Bowie was the musical guest of the evening. She is not a Bowie fan. As he began his performance at 1:30 am, she stepped outside for a cigarette. As the door shut behind her, David Bowie played the first acoustic notes of his song for the evening. He played “I’m Afraid of Americans,” and  “Dead Man Walking.”

Melanie could not hear Bowie’s voice haunting the air inside, “I’m gone, gone gone, like I’m dancing on angels. And I’m gone, through a crack in the past…”

Outside the air was freezing cold and dead empty, silent. Melanie lit a cigarette. Then, she heard a smacking sound, a crack in the silence. A familiar sound. Violence had brought her to this place, she knew its soundtrack. She heard one smack, another, another. She heard a small voice plead for help. She heard darker voices respond without mercy. And then, a return to silence.

Melanie rushed inside, told a night shift worker at the shelter what she had heard. The two stood outside together for a moment, listening. They heard nothing. So, they did not call for help.

Inside, perhaps  David Bowie crooned the last of his song, “I know who’s there, when silhouettes fall…… and I’m gone..”

When Melanie saw the article about the boy in the paper, she called the police to tell them her story, to tell the truth. Her timeline was strong, and through it, police established that John Hartman was beaten to death in an assault that lasted the length of a song. 1:30 to 1:35am

This information changed things. All of a sudden, it was crucial to know about time, to the minute. Naturally, these investigators returned to their notes, the others they had interviewed, to verify that the four in custody had no strong alibis during those critical five minutes. But what they found, probably much to their surprise, was that all claimed to have been elsewhere at 1:30am. And initial interviews with the witnesses who had seen them appeared to confirm that claim.

So, they returned. More interviews, more people. People who would continue, by and large, to tell a very simple truth. Only this time they would be treated as criminals. As revolutionaries, threatening the powers that be. Because, when the police heard the truth, a time of deceit had already begun. These small truths were cracks in the theory, threatening to break apart the entire story.

In the days to follow we will provide details of the police interviews that came in the early days of the investigation, and letters from some of those who were interviewed, who have graciously and bravely agreed to tell their stories again.

A Letter from a Daughter to her Father

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The case of the Fairbanks Four is about investigation, interrogation, mass information, misinformation, DNA, rather lack thereof, words and words, pages and pages, testimonies and ablibis, truths, and lies. All manner of things disappointing and wicked.

Sometimes to look at it is beyond exhausting and even their most ardent supporters grow weary. And then, some kind of blessing arrives, some kind of reminder of what this is really about. It’s about everyday people who have suffered an injustice having the courage to stand up for themselves. Below is a letter from George’s daughter, who was a few weeks shy of her third birthday when they broke into her home and took away her dad. If she can remain faithful and determined, certainly so can we.

My Dad, George Frese.
You left when I was a baby, and now when you come back, I’m a woman. You don’t know me and I don’t know you, but we have all the time we need to get to know each other again. I may not remember much about having a dad, but we can make new memories and you can always be there for me again. I miss you every day, I wish you were here. But you’re not. And you’re fighting your way home to be my dad again. I fight for your justice even though I know its dangerous to do so. MY DAD IS INNOCENT! Love you lots, whatever you say.
Love,
Your babygirl, Tiliisia Sherrine!!!

She added,

I miss my dad so much, and people just don’t how much I miss him. On the outside I’m happy and fighting for him, while on the inside I’m crying and screaming for him to come home, and wishing he would be here. My dad was in my life once, I’m pretty sure he can be there for me again. :’)

Here is a picture of George from about 1993, a few years before Tiliisia was born, and four years before he would be arrested for murder.

People who know him will tell you he was funny. Really, really funny. And a sweet guy. A nice guy, a gentle soul. They will also tell you that he had a child very young, but loved her SO very much and was really a dedicated father. It is a heartbreak that this injustice took a father away from his daughter, but she has grown into a strong girl and a fighter!

And, here she is at one of our last fundraisers, counting up donations that will fund the fight to bring her father home!

And on that note…….there IS a lot you can do to help. Spread, spread, spread the word! The number of supporters these guys have grows every day. There will come a critical point where the combined voices are too loud to be ignored.

Attend fundraisers if you are in the Fairbanks area. We plan to have our next one near North American time.

Donate online to Alaska Innocence Project HERE

You can donate miles or dollars to ease the cost of travel.

And REMEMBER….there are people in Fairbanks that have information about this case and about alternate suspects. No matter how small your information may seem, email your tips in to info@alaskainnocence.org or call 907-279-0454.

We have all heard whispers and rumors throughout the years – next time, ask a few questions. Rack your mind. If you have any information, email or call it in!!

There is an always-growing reward for information that leads to the exoneration of these young men.

Marvin’s Last Night – Timeline

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Below is a detailed timeline of Marvin’s motions on the evening of October 10th and early morning hours of October 11th. John Hartman was murdered at 1:30am. You can read a timeline of John Hartman’s night HERE.

Marvin spent most of the night of October 10th and early morning hours of the 11th doing two things: dancing at a wedding reception and serving as designated driver to scores of people. Many, many people testified that they saw Marvin throughout the night. Ultimately the DA would make the argument that their testimony should be discounted because his alibis were Native, that Marvin was Native, and that all Natives lie for each other.

Here is what we know of how Marvin spent his last night of freedom:

11:00 pm – Marvin picks up his friend Daniel Huntington from a house about ten blocks from the Eagles Hall.

11:05 pm – After driving for a few blocks Marvin and Daniel stop to chat with some girls on 2nd Avenue. The girls were: Skye Malemute, Monica Carlo, and Justina Demoski. They joked for a few minutes before continuing down the road.

11:15 pm – They arrive at the Eagles’s Hall and head inside, but the dance is not yet in full swing so they decide to go look for a few more friends.

11:20 pm – Marvin and Daniel arrive at Harland Sweetsir’s house, but no one is home. They then drive through the Klondike parking lot and a few other local haunts to see if they come across anyone they know. They don’t, and decide to head back to the Eagle’s Hall and see if things are picking up over there.

11:35 pm – Marvin and Daniel arrive at the Eagles Hall and spend a few minutes talking with Harland Sweetsir, Shannon Jenkins, and Brad Cruger.

11:40 pm – Marvin and Daniel drive a block over to Mapco to use the payphone to page Conan Goebel. They wait 5-10 minutes for a call back but don’t get one. They head back to the Eagle’s Hall, this time to head inside and join the reception in earnest.

11:50 pm – Marvin arrives at the Eagle’s Hall and sees friend Angelo Edwin outside. Daniel stays outside and Marvin hooks up with Angelo. They head in together, where Gary Edwin asks them to sit with him, joking that there are too many women at his table. They sit at his table.

12:00 am – 12:45 am –  Marvin dances with a series of women, including Athena Sweetsir, Tracy Monroe, Michelle Andon, and a handful of others.

12:45 am – Marvin drove a block over to Mapco (gas station) to get a soda for Athena Sweetsir. He was alone in the car.

12:55 am – Marvin made it back to the Eagle’s Hall with a pop for his dancing partner. He say with Gary Edwin, Angelo Edwin, Carrie Orrison, Eileen Newman, Tracy Monroe, and a few others.

1:15 – 1:30 am – Around this time there was some commotion concerning Frank Dayton, who had arrived back at the Eagle’s Hall injured. Marvin and Angelo asked Gary Edwin what had happened, and he responded “I’m trying to find out.” Out of the commotion, Marvin and Angelo eventually hear the basic story – that Frank Dayton had been mugged by four men driving a white or tan four-dour car. (911 Call came in at 1:30am, the same time John Hartman was being assaulted. Police would eventually add the mugging of Frank Dayton to the charges. Three people testified to seeing Marvin while the 911 call was made).

1:45 am – (approximately) Marvin sees Frank Dayton, who has a cut on his head.

1:45 – 2:00 am – Daniel Huntington rejoins Marvin and Angelo. All three continue to hand out at the Eagle’s Hall, where things seem to be quieting down.

2:00 am – The band stops playing. They are on break but a lot of people leave thinking the dance has ended.

2:05 am – Marvin, Daniel, and Angelo realize that the band is only on break and that the reception is not ending, and drive to Detour (a nearby club) to tell some of their friends that the party was not over. Gilbert Frank went with them. Gilbert was unable to get into the club so they all returned to the Eagle’s Hall.

2:15 am – They arrive back at the Eagle’s Hall and run into Allen Sisto who had just been dropped off by Joey Shank (Read more on Eugene’s timeline HERE)

2:30-45 am (approximately) – Marvin drives Alan Sisto and Shara David to Conan Goebel’s house on 24th Avenue. When Marvin drops off Allen and Sisto at Conan’s house Eddie Kootuk was there, and hops in with Marvin to head back to the Eagle’s Hall

2:45am – 3:00 am –  Marvin arrives with Eddie Kootuk at the Eagle’s Hall, and Marvin goes back inside to dance and mingle.

3:00 – 3:30 am – Marvin heads back outside of the Hall, where he visits with Calvin Charlie, Kevin Charlie, and Gilbert Frank for a few minutes. He reconnects with Angelo and Daniel and they decide to drive back over to The Detour to pick up their friend Shannon Jenkins. When they pull into the club parking lot it appears to be closing, with patrons outside in the parking lot and in cars. They cannot spot Shannon Jenkins.

3:30 am – They drive the half block over to Arctic Bar and find Shannon there. Marvin gives him a ride to an apartment at Executive Estates. The group goes inside for a few minutes, then leave Shannon there and head to Alaska Motor Inn to check out a party there.

3:50 am – Marvin, Angelo, and Daniel arrive at the Alaska Motor Inn. They see a heavily intoxicated Eugene Vent sitting on the bed using the phone. Harley Semekan is there along with Nicole Pitka and Gilbert Frank. Gilbert is passed out on the bed. The are only there for a short time before they are told the police had been called on the hotel room.

4:15 am – After hearing that the police were on their way, Daniel takes off on foot. Marvin leaves in his car and drops Angelo off before going home and going to bed.

The next afternoon the police arrive at Marvin’s house and take him into the station to interrogate him. He is as stunned as you would expect him to be. Read about his interrogation and access transcripts of it HERE

Everything that comes next is…..unthinkable. If it had not happened, it would seem impossible. Marvin is arrested for the murder of a young man he had never met, whom he had no connection to, with no physical evidence, and shortly after many hours of interrogation where he begged for a lie detector and maintained his innocence. Marvin had never had so much as a speeding ticket before the day he was arrested for Murder in the First Degree.

Read what Marvin has to say about his time in prison HERE.

Read about the physical evidence against him HERE.

Read a little about the men who sought him HERE.